Curse

TadaceAce · Jun 03, 2006, 04:09 AM // 04:09

Ok 70 armor + 15 while attacking just doesn't cut it.

As if everybody doesn't know, assassins are absolutely dreaded in PvE, the only good assassin is an assassin thats already dead and you don't have to heal anymore.

People are gonna say oh a good assassin runs in does his thing and then gets out. Yeah ok, you run in, everything attacks the softy, you stop attacking to back off, lose 15 armor and die even faster.

It doesn't help that the assassins only means of healing himself is through enchantments.... Almost all groups of enemies have at least one with the capability of stripping, and let me be the first to say that the programmers got that one down, those bad boys will strip shadow refuge before you get 1 second worth of healing outta it.

It also doesn't help that every group of enemies either blinds or uses faintheartedness... this leads to nobody wanting them in there group. Yeah this is kinda off topic about the armor.

It also doesn't help that the other melee, warrior, has 90+10 or 80+20 or 80+10+20 armor AND a shield... So warrior has we'll just say 90 and ignore the physical damage, 90+16 from the shield, thats 106 armor plus 10 or 20 versus physical... the lone assassin gets 85 while attacking with no bonus versus any other damage?

Now here is the kicker, I have three words for you, afflicted soul explosion... whos bright idea was it to make every adjacent assassin take 100+ damage every time one of those stupid things dies. And then if you have an assassin with 15% dp you just know when that boss dies your assassin dies too. Nobody knows quite sure how afflicted soul explosion works but it has something to do with damage taken. I've taken anywhere from 30 to 200 from regular guys and yeah, I've taken upwards of 400 from bosses.

Ok so suggestion: assassin armor should be 80+15 while attacking or maybe even more. I'm not for the +versus something else since war has physical and ranger has ele, that pot is dry. Thus I just suggest a relatively strong base armor. 80+15 leads to 95, compared to a warriors 90+16+(10 to 20) versus physical. Warriors will still have their +45/-2 shield to also negate damage and skills such as endure pain to put them high above sins in tankability.

I don't see how this would hurt pvp, 10 more armor is no big deal there.

If your gonna make it so the only way assassins can hold their own in damage is by not running, their only means of healing strippable, and make them take 100 damage every time an afflicted dies, I think the least you can do is give them enough armor they don't drop like a rock in the middle of combat.

I prefer my expertise assassin over my real assassin, why? because my ranger has 70+10 in stance armor +30 versus elemental... Not only that but expertise owns critical strikes in a build that uses energy in spikes not over a duration. With 10+4 expertise and zealous daggers I can maintain TF, spam combos while using moebius to recharge them only to spam them more with absolutely no energy problems. I try to run the same build on my assassin with 11 critical strikes (critical eye too) it doesn't work, energy is a huge problem.

My suggestion there is to put maybe +3-10 energy on daggers, kinda like a staff has. 35 energy would be enough for critical strikes to be better because I'll be honest, when your not using combos and usin increased attack speed, crit strikes + zealous + crit eye really fills up the energy bar.

Rhunex · Jun 03, 2006, 05:04 AM // 05:04

Assassins aren't tanks, they hit, they get out. And that doesn't necessarily mean that they run away, there are a few spells that move them out of the action after so much time has elapsed. If you really have problems with armor, get elementalist as a second, put on armor of earth, kinetic armor, and spam spells until the cows come home. Or you can get a monk secondary and buff yourself up. You don't need to use 8 slots on dagger skills, probably no more than 5, so you have plenty of room for a defensive measure or two.

TadaceAce · Jun 03, 2006, 05:14 AM // 05:14

the only way for an assassin to keep up with a warrior in dps is to use their secondary for dps, not ele for armor or monk for enchants that will just get shattered.

lyra_song · Jun 03, 2006, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Assassins are NOT for DPS. -.o

Rhunex · Jun 03, 2006, 05:21 AM // 05:21

If you're going to say assassins enchantments would be pointless because they can be stripped you can say that physical damage characters are useless because of blind, and warriors will never hit an enemy due to snares. And those are obviously not true. It is possible to maintain enchantments on an assassin, and if your group is smart it doesnt set all enchants on just on character so the enemy goes "Omg, stupid human n00bs, all we have to do is strip one retard and yall are useless"

Not that I would know, because I definately don't have an assassin that uses enchantments(insert sarcasm here)

TadaceAce · Jun 03, 2006, 05:52 AM // 05:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Assassins are NOT for DPS. -.o

..................................assassin is the rogue of guild wars, if they are not for dps they are worthless

And there is a difference between blind and cripple and hexes for that matter, they are an offense that can be countered, enchants are a defense that the programmers made sure the enemies can counter.

No really go into like, vizunah square, stand in the middle of an area, cast shadow refuge with guys around and see how long it lasts.

VGJustice · Jun 03, 2006, 05:58 AM // 05:58

There are other ways of doing what you need them to do, TadaceAce.

Assassins have armor that's comparable to what they need to do. Even a few stray attacks are not going to kill someone with 70AL. I played my Ranger with a sword build for all of Prophecies, including all but the last of the Titan quests, and I never had a problem with my 70AL armor. Assassins have a one-up on my Sword Ranger because they can spike. I can't damage spike at all with my sword Ranger, it just doesn't work that way.

Assassins don't need better armor, they need better tactics.

mega_jamie · Jun 03, 2006, 09:01 AM // 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by TadaceAce

Ok 70 armor + 15 while attacking just doesn't cut it.

As if everybody doesn't know, assassins are absolutely dreaded in PvE, the only good assassin is an assassin thats already dead and you don't have to heal anymore.

People are gonna say oh a good assassin runs in does his thing and then gets out. Yeah ok, you run in, everything attacks the softy, you stop attacking to back off, lose 15 armor and die even faster.

It doesn't help that the assassins only means of healing himself is through enchantments.... Almost all groups of enemies have at least one with the capability of stripping, and let me be the first to say that the programmers got that one down, those bad boys will strip shadow refuge before you get 1 second worth of healing outta it.

I dont even use the +15 AL armour and I rarely die or need much healing. As for having my refugse stripped, its never happened ith a PuG the wammo with mending gets his enchants ripped because they are meant to take agro first. And do just back away if your afraid of loosing your extra 15 armour, shadow step out, i maintain recall and do just fine. Also this game has secondary classes, so take a self heal from there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TadaceAce

It also doesn't help that every group of enemies either blinds or uses faintheartedness... this leads to nobody wanting them in there group. Yeah this is kinda off topic about the armor.

Monk secondary - mend ailment ... happy?

Personally with my 70AL and health bonus from my armour i rarely die. If i have a poor PuG and my monk is standing too close to combat then i might die if i shadow back to him and im still too close, but generally since i let the warriors take agro, then run it, combo and then just stop maintaining recall and bounce out it works fine.

raising assassin armour by 10 just isnt worth it. although perhaps they should be aloud to have some bracers or mini wrist targes on the off hand that increase block or armour or something to act like a shield.

TadaceAce · Jun 03, 2006, 06:30 PM // 18:30

I'll reiterate, if assassin is gonna be worth his space in the group he can't go A/Mo or A/E to protect himself, thats as dumb as a wammo.

VGJustice · Jun 03, 2006, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Actually, I prefer Assassins to have low armor. Why?

If they had higher AL, then they'd be able to tank and still deal the damage that they can already do. That would be unbalanced.

And I stand by my earlier point: Better tactics, not better armor.

EternalTempest · Jun 03, 2006, 06:55 PM // 18:55

/not signed

And yes I do play an assasin in pugs and very familiar with can't find party.

There not made to stay in the front row as war/mo's.

TadaceAce · Jun 03, 2006, 07:34 PM // 19:34

then what is the point of the assassin, their job is strictly damage cause it sure isn't utility or healing. You can't do this damage unless your in the front row. This game isn't like most MMORPGs, those games the warriors builds aggro then the rogue comes in and tears it up. In this game the assassin can't run in and tear it up without himself getting a few beatings.

EternalTempest · Jun 03, 2006, 07:42 PM // 19:42

There design is to pick a target close in, delevery high amount of damage in a short time then get out of dodge and repeat while inflicting conditions. Support character's are espically good targets.

They are meant for damage but there not designed to "tank" there for long period of time like a war.

There a lot of skills that stress this with the teleportation ones or one to keep you alive / untouchable for short peroids of time aka do your thing (get the target) unload, then get out safely.

TadaceAce · Jun 03, 2006, 07:44 PM // 19:44

go read my dps post between warriors and assassins, an assassin can hardly hold his own in dps against a warrior flat our spamming combos let alone playing hit and run.

Serafita Kayin · Jun 03, 2006, 07:52 PM // 19:52

An assassin's job is to pick off the wounded. Try that. Or go harass a monk. Monks hate assassins. Give them a new reason.

KvanCetre · Jun 03, 2006, 07:58 PM // 19:58

It's fine, learn to play assassin

dargon · Jun 03, 2006, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by TadaceAce

go read my dps post between warriors and assassins, an assassin can hardly hold his own in dps against a warrior flat our spamming combos let alone playing hit and run.

Funny, I solo'd a warrior in Fort Aspenwood, just last night with my assassin. Maybe he was a newbie, maybe he was running a new build that he wasn't familiar with, who knows. Point is, assassins can solo warriors. Moebius Strike ftw

VGJustice · Jun 03, 2006, 08:24 PM // 20:24

I remember getting hit hard by a KD Sin in RA once. That one Assassin wiped my whole team by himself. The only reason he needed anyone else there at all was for a distraction.

TadaceAce · Jun 04, 2006, 03:06 AM // 03:06

ok were not comparing a good assassin with an absolutely moronic person of people, were comparing a good assassin with a person with his head high enough to see the light of day.

robrobrob · Jun 04, 2006, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by TadaceAce

then what is the point of the assassin, their job is strictly damage cause it sure isn't utility or healing. You can't do this damage unless your in the front row. This game isn't like most MMORPGs, those games the warriors builds aggro then the rogue comes in and tears it up. In this game the assassin can't run in and tear it up without himself getting a few beatings.

They are NOT for DPS.
They are NOT for Tanking.

They're basically a one-man spike, if you will. You wait for warriors to aggro, then you tele in, spike one target, and warp out. Recharge, rinse, repeat.

THAT'S what assassins are for. You will never out-damage a warrior over time, especially if he's got adrenaline built up, so there goes your DPS angle. You'll never out-tank a warrior due to the armor differences you've noticed.

It seems your problem is how you're playing the assassin, in that you're using it like a warrior. That's why Sins can't find PuGs, btw, is because people play(ed) them like Warriors.